A question of faith
I've been told on innumerable occasions that the solution to the world's conflicts is faith (most people say that to mean one of many religions). Not economics, not science, not reason, not rationality, not the understanding of human progress but faith. They say that, although other things play their own role in providing solutions, the core of the solution lies with religious faith. This, to me is almost impossible to digest. As anyone who reads my posts on this blog would have concluded, I see organised religion (as opposed to the belief in a personal God) as the problem to the majority of the world's conflicts.
If we were to strike out all the fantastic stories and extirpate all the claims of divine miracles and the generally incredible and horrible stories of war, butchery and cold blooded murder from religion and it's holy books, what are we left with? We are left with nothing but a handful of basic moral codes of ethics and guidelines on how humans should conduct themselves. I agree, these codes of ethics have shaped us and molded us into the civilized societies that we are today. But I disagree that these moral codes were founded in one or two special religions or has divine origins. The evidence for this is the rise of great civilisations in other remote lands or even before monotheistic religions were born. My understanding being that these great civilisations (such as the Chinese, ancient Egyptians, the Greeks, the ancient Patagonians and the ancient Andeans) had no more or no less blood on their hands due to immoral and uncivilised behaviour than those that came after the revelation of modern religions.
And this is true even today.
Organised religion, as I see it, is the disease that poisons an inherently human evolutionary trait - the need to fit into a group for survival. Religion magnifies only a narrow aspect of humanity and completely ignores diversity. Religion fosters a sense of apathy that is hard to pinpoint. Why the poorest of the world's poor starve to death, it makes many of us believe, is because God has ordained them to be so. Why a tsunami kills hundreds of thousands, it makes us believe, is because it is God's punishment to sinful ways. (Why God didn't punish Nazi Germany or the genocidal maniacs of the Ottoman empire against the Armenians or chose to punish the marauding and raping Japanese imperial army by using infidel Americans is mind-boggling).
The fact of the matter is that knowledge (not religion) can find solutions to alleviate poverty and it can show us that tsunamis occur randomly and unpredictably and does not target a certain group of especially sinful people somewhere. Knowledge (or non-religious education) does not recognise different groups of people as being any more special than anybody else. But because religion demands that we suspend some of our rational and logical thinking to 'have faith' it does give us an incomparable tool with which to exercise extreme indifference even with vast amounts of knowledge in hand. Organised religion gives extreme prejudice a reason to be justifiable and justifies injustices.
If there ever was salvation for the world's suffering in religion and faith then Mother Teresa would be the perfect example for the case for faith as a possible trigger. But her diaries reveal a completely different person, pushing me to believe that it was her extremely altruistic personality and not her faith that made her who she was. I believe people are born and raised to be good or bad (not counting psychological anomalies) and religion may help some of them understand morality better. But it certainly does not mean that morality is a unique gift from faith or religion.
There are reasons why we find it so hard to come up with a way to deal with groups that breakaway from mainstream religions. So what are we to do? Some suggest religious education in the hope that this will clear out any misunderstanding the breakaway group may have. The idea is to teach them the "real" religion. But the group will have none of it. It is sort of like asking them to trade their iPods for tape recorders. Same core concept, different design.
So this brings me to my question. Many people say that the missing link is faith - as very specifically mentioned in this reply to one of my comments over at Hilmy's blog. And this is a very sincere and honest question I am asking, you, the reader. My question is, if indeed what is missing is faith, how exactly is it that faith can be the solution to a problem of faith?
Zero | October 15, 2007 3:58 AM | Reply
I do not want to waste my time here writing lengthy justifications on God, Faith, Islam and all.
Having read your past 3 posts and some of your other posts tagged under 'religion' - even the most 'uneducated' person with a common sense will know you have a problem with Islam. Let me ask you, why do you say it's not God; but religion when it's clearly and plainly written in Quran - “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” (Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 85).
Oh my friend, has your education stooped you into a level that you believe Science itself as a religion eh ?
Yea, what you have said is quite right - Kiyevi kiyvihen kaafaruvaanee ! One more thing, Dhule dhevvaafa otheema thalhuvanee... although what you talk is completely baseless !!
Zero,
14 million Jews, 400 million Buddhists, 900 million Hindus and 2 billion Christians do not believe in that verse from Quran. They think their version of the verse from their God is the original and the infallible. Obviously you won't agree with them. And many of us can live in acceptance of this general disagreement without questioning or passing judgments on others. But too many will not have it that way.
So...
Anyway, that statistic aside, I think 'organised' religion plays a big role in today's conflicts. One may agree or disagree that it does but I think it is fair to ask whether faith or religion has a solution.
Yes, you are right. I strongly believe that we are given brains, tongue, hand etc so that we will use them to the fullest. The world probably has a million times more books and more knowledge than it did 2000 years ago. I do not wish to know less and less about more and more.
jimbo | October 15, 2007 4:53 AM | Reply
i agree faith is the cause of many conflicts. the missing link is knowledge and common sense.
M | October 15, 2007 5:07 AM | Reply
let me simplify this... i am right, you are wrong. why? coz i said so. :D
post-hashing | October 15, 2007 10:13 AM | Reply
Missing link is a Rahona Ostromi, you morons.
post-hashing | October 15, 2007 10:17 AM | Reply
Oh and zero,
Many things are clearly and plainly written in many books. Why subject some to mental scrutiny and send other right down oesophagus without any question?
maanasih | October 15, 2007 6:36 PM | Reply
Like a friend always says, perhaps the only faith is blind faith. You either have it or you dont?
ACT! not criticise | October 16, 2007 4:08 AM | Reply
You say, "14 million Jews, 400 million Buddhists, 900 million Hindus and 2 billion Christians do not believe in that verse from Quran." WHY do you talk about them??? they are not the ppl who wrote this blog. YOU DID. So why are you so scared to say that this is what YOUR belief is?
You say that "I think 'organised' religion plays a big role in today's conflicts." It is not those religions that have led to conflicts. It is the use of religion as a political tool and power that has led to all the chaos.
You claim to be WELL READ. Maybe you should spend some time reading a bit more history books :)
flip side | October 16, 2007 5:54 AM | Reply
It's not our religion that makes us what we are. Yet religion guides those who chose to follow it properly. Some are misguided.
As you have pointed out, look at Mother Teresa. Her religion guided her. Yet she was what she was, of her own free will. Some of us believe that the human being is the miracle of God; that Science cannot create however much you try.
Simon. Your problem is not your unique mind, but your hatred of one religion. Educated human beings are tolerant and respectful others and their feelings. They don't ridicule it. Though you may not intend it, that is what you do, atleast for Islam.
Maybe it's your dislike of your forefathers for some odd reason that makes you so.
subcorpus | October 16, 2007 8:11 PM | Reply
organized religion may not be the only reson why people head for war ...
more land and more power over more people has been a reason many a times ...
but yes ... organized religion has been major player the last few hundred years ...
may be we will learn ... give it a few more hundred years ...
Personal Trainer | October 17, 2007 12:16 AM | Reply
oh bro
should say you are right to some point ... kinda agree with subcorpus ...
Mambo Jambo | October 17, 2007 4:51 AM | Reply
I do agree with Flip Side who says that u have a very intolerant approach when it comes to ONE of the many organised religions in the world, ie., ISLAM.
Maybe you need some therapy. It is not healthy to keep such hatred in yourself, and also to possess such intolerance, narrow-mindedness.
BUT then again these articles that you write might just be a theraputic means of letting go of that pent up negativity.
I USED TO KNOW you. You are certainly not the person that I knew back then :)
Simon | October 17, 2007 4:54 AM | Reply
Act!,
I've said enough about my beliefs on this blog. And I said that organised religion plays a big role in "today's" conflicts...when I look at conflicts in history it is far worse and prove my point further.
flipside,
I think you (and almost all Muslims) don't see who is really ridiculing and insulting Islam: the Islamist terrorists that are strapping on bombs to their body and blowing up innocent people! Those are the people who are really ridiculing Islam to bits.
You should be more worried about those kinds of ridiculing than anything else. But you are not. You don't find those acts as ridiculing Islam .. you and everyone else will shrug them off claiming "that's not real Islam". This is exactly why it has managed to ridicule Islam to the worst level. But We won't see any Muslims protesting (let alone giving it as little as a second thought to) that kind of ridiculing...ask yourself why not?
What forefathers? All I know is that they were buddhists once.
Hello Mambo-Jambo,
It's very interesting to find out that people take what I write and come up with what they think as an ideal personality that fit the words: a lunatic, misguided, intolerant, narrow-minded biggot who may need therapy. Hehe. Not surprising I suppose.
And Mambo-Jambo, if you think you can fully "know" the "person" from their writings, it is just as well that you "used" to know me. Not surprised, again.
flip side | October 17, 2007 6:05 AM | Reply
Simon. I this you should not take the comments personally. You express your opinon. The readers express the opinion because you have allowed. Take them in the same apirit.
peace | October 17, 2007 10:50 AM | Reply
a religion is a belief system.a set of instructions written in sum language in a book sum centuries ago.in every one of these belief systems for it to survive it needs to eliminate the previous belief systems, so it has practices that ensure this, like buildin a place of worship educating priests passing it down to the next generation atleast one book is essential, much like a political party wud go abt setting up offices in cities n stuff.basically saying that this set of instructions is the right one and the previous ones are wrong.does the quran really tell us to kill unbelievers?
golhaaa | October 17, 2007 12:33 PM | Reply
Sure quran tells muslims to kill em all
Sura 9:[29] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued
Islam itself is flawed
Aisha | October 17, 2007 8:10 PM | Reply
"Sure quran tells muslims to kill em all"...Yea sure it does, we beliv you simon; were gonna take your word for it!
Verses taken out of context are your next best bet, at slandering Islam and planting seeds of doubt.
This is the only Qur'anic verse that enjoins struggle against people of the book.
Patricia Crone states that this verse is the only Qur'anic verse which seems to endorse war of aggression, however if read as a continuation of previous verses (Qur'an 9:1-23), it would be concerned against a particular group of "dualists" (musyrikun) who are accused of oath-breaking and aggression (cf. Qur'an 9:30)
"Islam itself is flawed" hehe...Satan's minions hard at work
You persevere, and so shall we, 'golhaa/simon/ahmed adam'
Aisha,
Although I write the posts, the comments are written by their own authors and not associated with me. My comments have my name on them.
ca | October 17, 2007 11:30 PM | Reply
like i alwaays say....
i'd love to die as forefather's did.
Also less religions mean, more understanding.
gaanagaa | October 18, 2007 2:02 PM | Reply
Simon;
We all know you are an Extreme Wahhabee using some method of ancient psychology.
transitions | October 18, 2007 3:51 PM | Reply
Aisha: the same way you take your verses to prove what you think is right, others too do the same. So in the end there is no right and wrong, there is relativity, one can only be more right or more wrong in a given situation.
I find that those who's beleifs are challenged by this post are the one's who are abusive of Simon. This is the nature of human beings. We tend to react with violence to things we do not understand and I think this is the danger of organized religion.
Mambo Jambo: I think what Simon is intolerant is of intolerance. This is the picture I get, Simon mirrors a lot of my opinions too. Organized mainstream Islam is intolerant, it isnt the religion of the small population that followed the prophet. Today, we have to make choices based on lesser evils, tolerance of all religions means intolrance of intolerance- which i think is waaay better than intolerance itself. Times have changed and Islam has become more rigid. In a couple hundred years, leaving the Koran aside, the prophets sayings are going to be disputed over, much like christianity today. I leave the Koran aside because I think there has been a wonderful attempt to preserve it and I see that continuing.
kalhusoru | October 18, 2007 9:33 PM | Reply
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"So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates" (Muhammad 47:4)
[[The context of this verse was when the Muslims were to fight their enemies for their very existence. After thirteen years of endurance and patience, the prophet and his companions had to leave their home town of Makkah and to emigrate to Madinah. When the people of Madinah had welcomed him there and he was accepted as a leader there, the Makkans became unhappy. They wanted to eliminate Muhammad and his religion; and so they sent their army to root out Islam. And the crucial battle took place in Badr. It was just before this that Muhammad received the revelation from God to fight:
"And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits"(Al-Baqarah 2:190)
This meant that the Prophet and his companions were not to start the fighting; but to defend themselves against aggressors. That was how fighting was ordained; but we must know that once we fight, we fight to defeat the aggressors, so that we can live without fear of molestation and invasion; so that we can live in peace; so that justice is done. Remember God does not command any one to start fighting; rather He permits people to fight in self defense or for the defense of those who are attacked unjustly.
-Professor Shahul Hameed]
http://www.sandhaanu.net/news/120/ARTICLE/1303/2007-09-25.html
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Not that any of this has any meaning or relevance to you.
As dr.freez has previously noted simon is a man on a mission.
He does not seek an Islamic reformation or a mutual exchange of philosophies or 'tolerance'. what he seeks is to erase the 'illusion' of God from our hearts and minds, as he sees it to be not only the cause of all that is wrong with us, but he just doesn't get it! Where is this God? why do I have to believe in Him? How do I know the Quran is the word of God, if I cannot measure and "scientifically" quantify it? Why did God not send a manual of HOW he created everything, along with the Quran proving Himself!
Therefore he tries ever desperate attempts to satisfy himself that he is right; Yes his existence is an accident,we are all here through a random cosmic reaction, the universe is one big blunder etc, Yes 'science is the key to life; we are smart, we came here of our own will, we will live the way we want to live, we don't need a God to tell us right and Wrong; history bears testament to my foothold.
He imagines that if humanity learns to denounce this fallacy that God is then we, ie Man, will learn to live in peace and harmony and reject all the violence and sadism that is the hallmark of humanity. And since the previous posts, he seems to have fathomed little.
He thinks arguments like teacups orbiting planets and unicorns are potent arguments to disprove a necessity to prove a Gods existence; he sees the magnitude of the implications of belief in both as equal.
He thinks we should be "tolerant" like the Europeans & the Americans, where it is within one's rights to walk the streets in partial nudity but it is a violation to want to wear the veil and dress modestly. He calls for a freedom(of this and that) and he fails to see the inherent ambiguity & hypocrisy of those who coined this word.
In short only He Thinks, and those of us who believe in God are just kidding ourselves.
buster | October 18, 2007 9:47 PM | Reply
kalhusoru i believe in God but not allah :D
kalhusoru | October 19, 2007 12:53 AM | Reply
hehe Really 'buster'?..
Did u know that "Allah" is the only word in Arabic for 'God'?..even Christian Arabs have to use it!
Or are you one of those stupid enough to think like those in the west, who think 'Allah' implies an 'arab God'
Ismail Rasheed | October 20, 2007 1:59 AM | Reply
kalhusoru,
Allah is a specific god. The Arab Christians were forced under Islam to use it as their word for God.
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/words/words.html
Simon, nice posting.
Those who are really ridiculing and insulting Islam are those who "take the Koran out of context(???)" and scream "Allahu Akbar' as they murder.
dhonsoru | October 20, 2007 3:23 AM | Reply
I do not think 'blind faith' in anyway is a solution to the problem of faith. All around the world, theistic religions have irreconcilable differences in coming to terms with itself. Simon, you are flogging a dead horse. Do not think that you are the only one who has tried to illuminate the petty-minded Bible/Quran-thumping beltways. That has been tested to exhaustion and failed.
medhusoru | October 20, 2007 4:56 AM | Reply
"illuminate" as in "enlighten" right 'dhonsoru' ?..:)
kalhusoru | October 20, 2007 4:59 AM | Reply
Ismail rasheed I think your own link defies you..in the context of what I meant atleast.
I agree with your last sentence though...sad,but true!
dhonsoru | October 20, 2007 11:35 AM | Reply
medhusoru, thank u.
In more (not so) recent news [ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7050820.stm ]::
In a wide ranging decree, the president ordered:
+ A new dress code which outlaws women from being covered from head-to-toe
+ Moderate Islamic views to be promoted in schools and colleges
+ Action against anyone suspected of being a religious extremist
+ Research into why some Muslims have become more radical
+ A new law that bans words or actions likely to encourage extremism
In addition to the laws re-enforcing the Gestapo, here's something else to hark at: 'research into why _some Muslims_ have become more radical'- a hypothesis whose selective bias already tells us how accurately it describes the severity of the situation in the Maldives.
Aisha | October 20, 2007 7:07 PM | Reply
Thanks for the infomercial dhonsoru
May I also share some food for thought-
http://yudkowsky.net/tmol-faq/tmol-faq.html#theo_conflict
http://www.projectcensored.org/
Kalhusoru / Medhusoru,
I already feel the unaswered questions building up inside you and it is eating away at your cranium, is it not? No, no it is definitely not because I wrote somethings. On the contrary, you came to this blog already in state of conflic with yourself. So spare me the credit. All the questions and doubts you cleverly pretend that I 'imagine' or that I attempt to answer or 'satisfy' myself with is clearly your very own. Don't deceive yourself. Let yourself go.
Why do I say that? Because, my friend, these are not questions or uncertainties that I am struggling to answer anymore than you are struggling to ride a bicycle.
This is the second time I am hearing about some 'teacup orbiting planets'. Who needs celestial teacups, sir? For that matter who needs Europeans and the Americans to demonstrate our inability to grasp anything beyond the box we're in?
You see, I do not call for freedom. It is something I do not understand because I too, presumably like yourself, lived the better part of my life in a confined state - slowly decaying my will to exercise or even comprehend real 'freedom' let alone any freedom of thought.
Thank you. I feel very special because of your comment.
:)
(I am told if I don't put the smiley people will think I am being rude)
Aisha,
I like project censored. Thanks for the link. I also like Eliezer Yudkowsky's take on the Conflict between Religion and Science. Just because someone's a research fellow somewhere doesn't mean he can articulate anything without outright contradictions and nonsense. But I like it because he ends it with:
"And since science is the process of discovering truth, it would be possible to say that there was a conflict between religion and science... but equally possible, and more valid, to say that there was a conflict between religion and honesty, or religion and knowledge, or religion and reality."
YOu should also note that he warns visitors to his website that anything written prior to 2001 is "horrifically obsolete". The page you linked is dated Wednesday, October 11, 2000.
kalhusoru | October 21, 2007 5:41 AM | Reply
hahah reverse psychology huh..I like
Is your so called rebuttal intended to blind readers of the obvious dead-end you in fact find yourself in, I wonder...
No sir i do not consider myself lost, and you throwing the arrow(s) I threw at you, back at me doesn't devalue my points..which you are unable to deconstruct..
"Don't deceive yourself. Let yourself go" lol
"Thank you. I feel very special because of your comment."..yea you've made your point!
B/w 'teacups orbiting planets' are not mine arguments..they are from your school of thgt...and the Eliezer Yudkowsky was as i said merely 'food for thought'..nothing more
:)..Thrs your smiley
primary0 | October 22, 2007 1:40 AM | Reply
Mireyaa Maadhamaage Moosum:
Raajjeyge eki hisaabuthakah kereege asaru foaraane. Hulhangu uthuraa hulhuangu dhekunu gadiyaky 12 meylaa 18 meylaa dhemedhu baaru mineggaa vai jeheyne.
ps: i am just contributing to the 'BS' trend of many commenters here.
Ramen!
nass | October 22, 2007 8:00 AM | Reply
jeez, with all these dhon/kalhu/medhu/hima/fala soru around, who needs me :p
Suhail | October 23, 2007 3:48 AM | Reply
Food for thought: Allah is not a name that was revealed in Qur'an. In othewrwords Allah is not a name Muslims have chosen for God Almighty. That was a name probably in use among Arabs for centuries before Mohamed arrived. The best proof was that Mohamed's father's name was Abudullahi (Slave of Allah).
Isamil Rasheed, I do not think Muslims need to force Arab Christians to call God Almighty by the name of Allah, as whatever religion Arabs have, they have to use Allah as the name of God. Because Allah is a conjunction of two Arabic words Al and Elah, literally meaning The God.
manik | October 27, 2007 4:32 AM | Reply
If some one wants to be guided by Alifu Laila (Arabian Nights) what's the problem? That is as long as he refrains from blowing up others.
Mohandhas | November 5, 2007 5:54 AM | Reply
Science constantly redefines our borders. If a man who makes nothing of science and believes only of religion then he would soon embrace which we call fundamentalism because he values nothing of this world. If that person with no vision or explanation of the world stands to prove his point has nothing with him to device his answers; what is left for him is to only act on violence and anger.
And understanding of facts would help to solve conflicts. An understand of world history would help. An understanding of psychology would help. Understanding of the universe would help us to unite and live as one so that one day we will not perish like the dinosaurs.